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On March 19, the four-year anniversary of the Iraq war, in a lightening exchange on Fox News' O'Reilly Factor, Sunsara Taylor of World Can't Wait - Drive Out the Bush Regime, seized the high ground with exposure and basic truths about the Iraq war and U.S. policy on torture rarely heard on national TV.

1. She exposed the war as a crime, not a mistake, and nailed the premises as false: "Iraq had nothing to do with 911. Iraq had no WMDs. George Bush lied to the world, he lied to the troops and he lied to the American people."

2.  When O'Reilly denied the U.S. has tortured anyone and challenged her to name someone, Taylor documented the case of Maher Arar(1) a Canadian citizen abducted by U.S. officials at JFK, sent to Syria to be tortured for a year, and later exonerated by the Canadian government. She exposed how the German and Italian governments have issued warrants for the arrest of U.S. officials involved in rendering and torturing of their citizens(2). She quoted John Yoo, a top Bush legal advisor who justified torture, even stating in a public debate that crushing the testicles of a small child could be legitimate if "the President thinks he needs to do that."(3). She quoted U.S. Army Brigadier General Janis Karpinski who ran the prison at Abu-Ghraib talking about Rumsfeld's direct hand in the torture in that prison(4).

When O'Reilly dismissed all these examples as "America hating" and asked why no one knew about any of this, Sunsara threw it back: "You know why people don't know? Because it's done in secret. Because it's covered up and news programs like yours don't report the truth.... you are complicit and you are covering up war crimes and crimes against humanity." 

As www.newshounds.us ("We watch FOX, so you don't have to") puts it: "Bill O'Reilly met his match in Sunsara Taylor of worldcantwait.org... He badgered her and pulled 'the Hannity,' repeating the same questions and comments over and over in faux disbelief but she kept up with him, ignoring his inane distractions, arguing the facts passionately, calling the war illegal and citing Nuremberg."

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(1) A Canadian government inquiry cleared Maher Arar of all terrorism allegations on September 18, 2006. The Prime Minister made a formal apology to Arar on behalf of the Canadian government and offered him $10.5 million plus legal fees to a settle a lawsuit.  Arar is a 34-year-old wireless technology consultant, a Canadian citizen born in Syria. On Sept. 26, 2002, while in transit in New York's JFK airport returning home from a vacation, Arar was detained by US officials and interrogated about alleged links to al-Qaeda. Twelve days later, he was flown to Syria in shackles, where he was held in a tiny "grave-like" cell for ten months, beaten, tortured and forced to make a false confession.    http://www.maherarar.ca and http://www.ararcommission.ca/.

(2) An example of Italian government's action against U.S. extraordinary rendition is the Imam Rapito episode. This Islamist cleric was kidnapped in a joint CIA-SISMI operation in Milan on February 17, 2003, and rendered to Egypt. He was tortured both in Italy and Egypt. He was released February 11, 2007, at which time an Egyptian court ruled that his imprisonment was "unfounded." Investigating prosecutors in Italy have sent extradition requests for 26 US citizens who have been indicted for this rendition, including head of CIA in Italy. A trial is scheduled to begin in June 2007.

From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extraordinary_rendition

(3) John Yoo debate with lawyer Doug Cassel, January 8, 2006, Chicago public forum

Cassel: If the President deems that he's got to torture somebody, including by crushing the testicles of the personÕs child, there is no law that can stop him?

Yoo: No treaty.

Cassel: Also no law by Congress. That is what you wrote in the August 2002 memo.

Yoo: I think it depends on why the President thinks he needs to do that.

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article11488.htm

(4) Brig Gen. Janis Karpinski, testifying Bush Crimes Commission, January 21, 2006

JK: And he said, the only memorandum is the one that's posted out here--it was posted on a column, in the cellblock. Right outside this little admin office that they were using.

MC: What did that memorandum say?

JK: The memorandum said that it was an approval of harsher interrogation techniques.

Q: And who had signed that memorandum?

JK: That memorandum was signed by the Secretary of Defense, Don Rumsfeld.

MC: And what kinds of techniques were authorized in that memorandum, signed by Donald Rumsfeld, Secretary of Defense?

JK: It was one page, and he authorized sleep deprivation, stress positions, meal disruption--serving their meals late, not serving a meal. Leaving the lights on all night while playing loud music. Issuing insults or criticism of their religion, their culture, their beliefs.

MC: And was there a note in his handwriting on the side?

JK: Yes, in the margin on the left-hand side.

MC: And what did that say? 

JK: It said, "Make sure this happens!!" With two exclamation points. And it was written alongside of the list of the interrogation techniques.

-- International Commission of Inquiry on the Crimes Against Humanity of the Bush Administration, www.Bushcommission.org

Transcript of March 19 INTERVIEW of Sunsara Taylor by Bill O'Reilly

BOR: Where am I making my mistake here, Ms. Taylor?

ST: We are 4 years today into a war that was launched on the basis of lies, that has cost over half a million Iraqi lives, thousands of U.S. soldiers' lives, it has led to an unmitigated disaster for the Iraqi people. The destruction of their infrastructure, the fastest growing refugee crisis in the world -- over 100,000 Iraqis fleeing Iraq each month-because of what this country has done. And just to be clear, to finish your question, there were no WMDs, there were no links to Al Qaeda. This colonial occupation was -

BOR: Colonial -- let's take it one by one. You say the war was founded on lies.

ST: It was.

BOR: And the big lie was what?

ST: Iraq had nothing to do with 911. Iraq had no WMDs. George Bush lied to the world, he lied to the troops and he lied to the American people.

BOR: Did Bill Clinton lie to the world when he said that he believed that Saddam had WMDs?

ST: We're here on the 4-year anniversary of an invasion--

BOR: Ms. Taylor, are you going to answer the question? Did Bill Clinton lie to the world when he said he thought Saddam had WMDs?

ST: I don't know when he made the statement. He might have been lying. I don't know.

BOR: All right, you say that there were 600,000 Iraqis killed, correct? According to the United Nations the Iraqi body count is 53,952 since 2003. How does that equate with 600,000? This is in the United Nations report, I have it right here in front of me.

ST: According to the Lancet study, the medical journal in England, it's over 600,000. But I want to ask you, how many tens of thousands of deaths are acceptable to you? How many hundreds of thousands are okay? This is an illegal war. It's a war of aggression by Nuremberg standards.

BOR: It's a legal war.

ST: It's a war crime.

BOR: If it was a war crime there would be action. It was not illegal because of the violation of the ceasefire in the first Gulf War. The Lancet is a British medical journal run by far-left people. You just used their facts.

ST: For four years the U.S. has tortured people in Iraq,

BOR: Let me ask you the same question I asked the reverend ["Name a single person who has been tortured."]

ST: Maher Arar, who has a suit against the U.S. and it's been taken up to the Supreme Court. Maher Arar was tortured--

BOR: What did they do to him?

ST: He was abducted at JFK airport, he was completely innocent. He was rendered, he was shipped across the world.

BOR: How was he tortured? What did they do?

ST: He was beaten, he was kept in sensory deprivation. This has happened time and time again.

BOR: You believe him?

ST: This is why the German and the Italian government have extradited U.S. officials.

BOR: They haven't extradited anybody. They said that they believe that it happened.

ST: They have indicted-

BOR: Okay, this man's case isn't adjudicated so far. We don't know what happened to him. There was another man who may be--

ST: John Yoo, one of the top lawyers of George Bush's administration, said in a public debate that George Bush has the right to torture somebody, including, quote, by crushing the testicles of their small child in front of them. I quote you from a public debate. This is George Bush's lawyer. This is the legal doctrine.

BOR: Whose small child was that? Who was the child that got his testicles crushed?

ST: This was what he was arguing is defensible.

BOR: You don't know which and he doesn't either.

ST: This is the man who is crafting the Military Commissions Act. And you know why people don't know? Because it's done in secret. Because it's covered up and news programs like yours don't report the truth. You have to tell people.

BOR: If it's done in secret, if it's done in secret, how do you know it happened?

ST: Because it's been documented around the world.

BOR: Where are the documents? I don't see them. Where are they? Do you have them?

ST: Because people like you don't play them. Because you don't want--

BOR: Well, can you give them to me?

ST: Can I give them to you? You're the reporter -- allegedly.

BOR: You're making all these slanderous accusations against your own government.

ST: These are facts.

BOR: They're not facts. Give me the documentation, I'll put it on.

ST: -- against the government. the Bush administration. The Military Commissions Act legalized torture.

BOR: The International Red Cross is at Guantanamo Bay.

ST: Abu Ghraib, the whole world saw it.

BOR: Who ordered Abu Ghraib? Who ordered it?

ST: Rumsfeld's handwriting is on the walls of Abu Ghraib.

BOR: Rumsfeld's handwriting is on the walls?

ST: Yes, according to Janis Karpinski, who was the brigadeer general in charge-- You can have Janis Karpinski come on--

BOR: I did -- I had her on twice.

ST: She testified to this. This was military doctrine. You can put your head in your hands but you are complicit and you are covering up war crimes and crimes against humanity. And if people in this country do not step up and pour into the streets in protest like they did last Saturday, to bring this war to a halt, in our millions, then we'll be complicit too.

BOR: Why aren't they pouring into the streets?

ST: Why? First of all many of them are. But more of them need to be. And history is full of examples where people who had right on their side fought against tremendous odds-- and it starts with a few. 20,000 on Saturday.

BOR: Let me just recap.

ST: And everybody listening should go to worldcantwait.org

BOR: The United Nations says that there have been 59,000 Iraqis dead.

ST: And that's acceptable to you?! 59,000 deaths, that's okay with you-- for a war that had nothing to do with the causes we were told.

BOR: So you say that Don Rumsfeld's handwriting is on Abu Ghraib, is that what you're saying?

ST: I am quoting Janis Karpinski. She testified to that.

BOR:  Okay, she was the general who was cashiered because she didn't oversee it. And the final thing is that you believe that your country is an evil--

ST: I said -- most of the American people and the people of Iraq and the people around the world make a distinction between the American people and the Bush administration, and I think we have to take responsibility for stopping this--

BOR: But the Clinton administration thought that Saddam had WMDs too.

ST: We need to impeach George Bush for war crimes and crimes against humanity.

BOR: With all due respect Ms. Taylor I think you're really way out there but I appreciate you coming in and letting people hear what you have to say and they can make their own decision.

ST: This war needs to stop and we have to stop it.

BOR: If you want to stop it, then you need to stop being hysterical and get your facts--

ST: I am talking about what is really happening. You want to dismiss life and death of thousands and hundreds of thousands of Iraqi people. These are facts.

BOR: You are simply a woman who doesn't know what she's talking about. But that 's okay.

ST: These are the facts on the ground in Iraq.

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